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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 231 Sat Aug 15, 1992
D.GLISH [DAVE GLISH] at 09:47 EDT
Since the Falcon is supposed to have a SCSI2 interface, does that mean a
person would be able to hook up one of the new Floptical drives
directly?
This could then be used as a second disk drive (with great potential for
doing backups). I have heard that the Falcon doesn't have a second floppy
drive plug.
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 232 Sat Aug 15, 1992
M.PERDUE [Mario] at 10:10 EDT
Kene,
I dug out an old text book on TV's that explains it like this:
"The scanning pattern of a TV camera in the United States is made up of 525
_lines_ (262-1/2 odd-numbered and 262-1/2 even-numbered lines). The beam
completes the scanning of one _field_ each time it scans 262-1/2 lines.
Two fields make a complete television picture, called a _frame_. The
electron beam produces 30 complete frames per second."
Seems simple enough.
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 233 Sat Aug 15, 1992
DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 12:02 EDT
Steve,
The 262,144 color mode on the Falcon does not use a palette.
Everyone,
In the video industry, the phrase "lines of resolution" refers to VERTICAL
lines, not horizontal scan lines.
--Doug
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 234 Sat Aug 15, 1992
G.NORTON [G.NORTON] at 13:02 EDT
Tom,
I noticed that line too...I hope Atari is going to wait for 6 months before
they start advertising. They need to give the Falcon a good jump out of the
starting blocks to make it a success. Hopefully Same realizes that you have to
spend some money to make some money.
Graham @ Quay Computers
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 235 Sat Aug 15, 1992
M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 13:20 EDT
Rod,
Actually 525 scan lines don't equal 525 lines of resolution. There are
several scan lines (I forget how many) that are used for vertical sync in the
NTSC standard.
Mike Allen
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 236 Sat Aug 15, 1992
AD-VANTAGE at 13:25 EDT
Chuck,
The Falcon is in a steel case -- sheet metal shielding just like the other
keyboard case ST's :-)
I suspect one reason for the packaging we see in the Falcon was to use what
has worked in the past. Maybe they stuck with the sheet metal
shielding so they would not repeat the FCC problems experienced with the
TT/MSTe. The surface mount multi-layer processor board will go a long way
towards reducing emission also. I'll be very suprised if the computer is
held up by the FCC this time.
-- Ron
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 238 Sat Aug 15, 1992
M.FARMER2 [Mark Farmer] at 14:02 EDT
To: J.Richter [J.Richter]
No cheep system for me thank you, I was just pointing out you can get many of
the same limits on a PC (not all). I am sure the Falcon would make many
older PC owners wish they had one.
But if the price for the falcon is to high they would look at can I get
software from my local dealer (Atari=No) can I get it fixed Local
(Atari=No).
(NOTE: Not all cases but most).
Also if the cost dif is not a big margin then they will not see why they
should upgrade from there 8088 or 286 to the Atari Falcon, and just upgrade
to a 386 or 486.
To: R.MARTIN22 [NetWork 23]
There maybe more than one meaning for the NTSC how ever I looked the meaning
up Ref: "The NEW Illustrated Science And Invention Encyclopedia"
What was your reference?
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 240 Sat Aug 15, 1992
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 15:52 EDT
There are a couple of things I would like to know. I hope someone can answer
them.
It was mentioned that the Falcon has an RS232C port. Is this
different from the RS232 port we have now? What is the max. speed on this
critter? Is it still limited to 19200?
Will there be an easy way to upgrade the Falcon to 33mhz 68030 or will we
need to have a hack in it like the several we have now for the ST
computers? What about 40mhz, etc.?
Will the same HD, flopticals, CD-ROMS, ability be there as in ICD's LINK?
Will we be able to hook up any SCSI type drive/device? Will it need special
drivers for each device or will there be a general purpose driver?
I see there can be an internal IDE drive. Will the interface be there
but not the drive if you don't want to order one or, will you have to
order the interface/drive combo? I would like to have the interface there but,
I don't want the drive because you can pick up 200+ meg IDE drive fairly
cheap. I saw a 212 Maxtor for $350.00. I wonder if it will end up something
like the TT/STE where you had to order the upgrade kit to get the
internal drive ability? Why didn't they make one cover for all computers?
I wonder if GFA Basic programs will have a problem with the Falcon like
they have with the TT?
I wonder if the Expansion bus will be another Mega flop (pun
intended)? I hope items are created to use it more than they were for the Mega
(Old Mega that is).
Sam said that they make great Chip Merchants. I wonder if they are going to
charge an arm and leg for the ram upgrades or, will they really be competitive?
1 meg SIMMS are down to $28 a pop.
Atari isn't the only company "Right-sizing" around here. It only makes
good business sense to cut out the waste. We have been "Right-Sizing" for
awhile.
What did they mean by SCSI II with DMA? I assume they are just using a term
here and didn't mean it literally. In other words, the SCSI II port has
Direct Memory Access?
I wonder why they just didn't call it the Atari Falcon? Does the 'Atari
Falcon 030' allude to an 'Atari Falcon 040'?
What modes are interlaced that I can use on an SC1224? Will all the video
modes be selectable between Non-Interlace and Interlaced?
Why can't I get a REAL keyboard? These mushrooms have got to go.
I take it that the Falcon will be in some ways better than the SST,
TinyTurbo and TT in the fact that there will be no more ST/TT ram? All ram
will be 32 bit ram instead of 16 bit ram? ALL applications will be ran in 32
bit ram?
Don't take the above as a shot at either accelerator board. It was not
meant like that.
Well, that is about it for now. I know. It was enough.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 241 Sat Aug 15, 1992
M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 18:05 EDT
Sam Rapp,
re "the power of transparency" - you got it in one, I think.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 242 Sat Aug 15, 1992
SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 21:19 EDT
I know more than I want to know about NTSC. With luck I forget about 3% of
what I know every year. Let's talk backdoor of horizontal sync. Let's see...
we've got burst, breezeway, video... somewhere in there in the signal we've
got vertical syncronization pulses... all that jargon used to get me
aroused... <sigh> I'm getting old.
Anyway, NTSC (Never Twice Same Color) will hopefully die a horrible
death
within five years _after_ the FCC decides on the broadcast standard
for Hi-
Def. Unfortunaely they're making making it compatible with existing TV
systems...
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 243 Sat Aug 15, 1992
SAM-RAPP [<<Sam>>] at 23:05 EDT
J.Richter------> One problem, if the Falcon has no DMA port, how am I
going to get it to work with my lowly Megafile Hard disk?
Also, does anyone know exactly what resolutions/colors will be
available on the SC1224 monitor?
And what are the spec supposed to look like on any new monitor in my
future? Horizontal (upper and lower)/Vertical (upper and lower)?
________________
|
|
-----------> Sam
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 244 Sat Aug 15, 1992
REALM [Joey] at 23:43 EDT
Wayne, GFA works great on the TT! I've written a couple programs
that run in the TT res's no problem at all. The stuff you've tried must be
old.:-)
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 245 Sat Aug 15, 1992
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 23:49 EDT
The TT/MSTE is in a metal case also. If you scratch that brown paint,
you will notice a layer of copper covering the inside of the case.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 246 Sun Aug 16, 1992
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:57 EDT
No Joey, it is not old. I know GFA works on the TT, at least the newer
stuff does. I am talking about stuff that needs/needed the 24bit program.
GFA Also works on the SST because I tested our BBS program on it.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 247 Sun Aug 16, 1992
E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 02:12 EDT
Rumour du Jour:
Someone on Usenet posted Falcon details from the September issue of
the UK's Atari ST User and one of the things rumored to happen was a new case
design next April.
Salt, anyone? :^)
Tip du Jour:
Read the transcript of the Delphi conference with Sam. There's some more
juicy Falcon info in there. I don't know how much of it was said in the one
here on Wednesday, but I enjoyed reading it.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 248 Sun Aug 16, 1992
S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:07 EDT
DOUG.W - You mean the "16-bit color mode" not the "262,144 color mode" right?
Also, there's the question as to whether it's only the 16-bit color 320x200
resolution that has no palette or if *ALL* 16-bit color modes have no palette.
R.WATSON15 - Supposedly, the new serial port will allow higher speeds than
19200, but I don't know how high. Accelerator upgrades will probably be
easier in the Falcon 030. Yes, you will be able to hook up virtually any SCSI
drive/device. The IDE connector will be inside the machine, so you *SHOULD*
be able to just pop one in yourself as with the Amiga 300...er...600. I never
put 'crippling' past Atari, though. And like I've said, I'm also worried
about the Falcon 030 RAM. If they don't offer the RAM boards for less than
$35/MB (maybe $40/MB at the absolute highest), then they're a ripoff as far
as I'm concerned.
SFRT-ASST - Don't hold your breath on that! It'll probably be at least 8-
12 years before HDTV is affordable enough for most people and there won't
be many HDTV broadcasts until there are a lot of HDTV viewers out there.
Also, the FCC already decided several months ago that the U.S. HDTV
standard does *NOT* need to be compatible with existing systems because
they felt that that requirement was impeding the development of HDTV and that
it was even somewhat unrealistic.
SAM-RAPP - You can get an adaptor to use older ACSI/DMA devices with the
Falcon's new SCSI II port. Since the SC1224/SC1435 are analog
monitors, there's no real limit on the number of colors it can display, but
I'm not sure about the resolutions (it may handle higher resolutions in
interlaced mode).
According to the August issue of ST FORMAT, the Falcon 030 "is
reputedly heading for a [British Pounds]550.00 price tag." In actual
exchange rates, that's about $1050.00, but it doesn't quite work that way
since there are other international economic factors at work. In reality,
that would probably work out to around $750, give or take $50. ST FORMAT
also says that the Falcon's DSP yields about 13.5MIPS.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 249 Sun Aug 16, 1992
J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 07:26 EDT
Relax Mark, Multitos is standard on the Falcon :>
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 250 Sun Aug 16, 1992
M.FARMER2 [Mark Farmer] at 07:27 EDT
To: R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]
Not just any IDE hard drive a 2 1/2 IDE drive.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 251 Sun Aug 16, 1992
D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 09:26 EDT
Is there any truth to the rumor that the MultiTOS/Newdesk combo in the Falcon
030 has had improved graphics added to GEM? Even though windoze is
Sloooooow, most people seem to think it is much more powerful because of
the nifty 3-D buttons, multi-color icons, etc.
I'd love to see the Falon with enhanced GEM interface. It would help sell the
machine. GEM is too simplistic for the 90's (Despite the fact that it works so
well).
___________________
\hunderbird
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 252 Sun Aug 16, 1992
M.PERDUE [Mario] at 11:00 EDT
Wayne,
The programs that need the 24bit program to run are using the upper address
bits for internal purposes. This causes a problem with the TT because it COULD
have memory there. I suspect that this is one of the reasons Atari chose to
limit memory to 16/14meg. If you limit your address space to 16Meg, you
never need those upper bits.
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 253 Sun Aug 16, 1992
J.P.C. at 11:24 EDT
ALL:
Just to keep things in perspective....
In several advertising supplements of today's Washington(DC)Post, I see ads
for 386sx's w/monitor, 80-100Meg HD, 4Meg RAM, DOS/Windows 3.1, Lotus Works,
dot-matrix printer for less than $1,000!
People buy what they see.
The 'Falcon 030' looks GREAT on my SM124 but, unless it gets into the stores
BEFORE XMAS, its ALL OVER.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 254 Sun Aug 16, 1992
LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 12:04 EDT
J.P.C.
You are right if the Falcon does not make it to Xmas the few dealers that we
have left will be very upset.
Ringo
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 255 Sun Aug 16, 1992
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 13:22 EDT
The Falcon will be "acceleratable" easily, 40 or 50 Mhz would be the target
for an 030, if you're going to the trouble of speeding up, why stop at 33 ;-)
Atari has been very sensible from the start on upgradablity with the Faclcon.
If they can't meet the $35/Meg ram price, I'm sure a 3rd party will. Since
the 4 Megabyte size board would require 8 1Megx4 chips, a small PC board,
and an inexpensive connector, it should be salable for around $159 retail, or
$40/Meg and still make a profit for the developer and dealer.
The internal IDE needs to be a 2.5" drive to fit, and I'm sure they'll leave
the space there, ready to have a drive slapped in, no tricks, no hurdles,
no crippling.
There's been a real, fundamental, change in Atari's veiw toward 3rd party
enhancements and user upgradeability, and the Falcon will show it.
The IDE and SCSI II ports are DMA'd ports. The Blitter chip is used as a
generic DMA controller, not only drawing lines on the screen like
lightning, but also reading/writing to disk. Something the Mac's lack and
could REALLY use ;-)
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 256 Sun Aug 16, 1992
DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 14:27 EDT
Steve,
Yes, I goofed. I meant the 15- or 16-bit color mode.
--Doug
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 257 Sun Aug 16, 1992
ISD [Nathan] at 14:54 EDT
Ed ... From your post #247, I can only assume you did NOT read the
transcript of Sam's GEnie RTC last week. I suggest that you do so as it was
an excellent conference. It is file #25262.
------------
Category 18, Topic 20
Message 258 Sun Aug 16, 1992
L.MCCLURE at 19:51 EDT
One of the questions I wanted to ask, but had to leave before I was able to,
was whether in the "14 meg" configuration, with 16megs actually
installed, if any of the chips other than the CPU could 'see' the missing two
megs. If for instance, the blitter could reach into that 2 megs, it could at
least be put to use as a RAMdisk.
Also, I wonder how difficult it would be for a third party to come up with a
way to add RAM above the 16-meg limit.
I have seen some folks question why the Falcon does not offer higher
resolutions, or more colors at 640x480 (pointing out that you can now get
under-$200 VGA cards that have 16-bit, and now, even 24-bit color). Of course,
Falcon has one thing those VGA cards don't...it can output those in NTSC
format, directly recordable on a VCR with no extra gadgets. The least
expensive VGA card I have seen (mailorder) with NTSC output was
$349...half the rumored price of the Falcon.
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Category 18, Topic 20
Message 259 Sun Aug 16, 1992
E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 21:36 EDT
Nathan,
I was at the GEnie conference, and I do have the transcript.
What I meant was there was some stuff in the transcript that looked new to
me - stuff that I didn't see in the GEnie conference.
------------